Beckhams caps

[damo bantam boy]

Although I like Beckham as a player and a person, I have to say it makes me giggle when folks go on about him overtaking Bobby Charltons caps record and approaching Bobby Moore's record. Those two legends played most of their England games in a time when subs weren't allowed, so they would've been on the pitch for 90 minutes of most of those appearances. So to say Beckham has played for England more is a bit misleading. It would be intersting to see who's played the most for England in terms of minutes on the pitch, I bet Bobbys Moore and Charlton are streets ahead of anyone in that list.

[Kop Kred]

Although I like Beckham as a player and a person, I have to say it makes me giggle when folks go on about him overtaking Bobby Charltons caps record and approaching Bobby Moore's record. Those two legends played most of their England games in a time when subs weren't allowed, so they would've been on the pitch for 90 minutes of most of those appearances. So to say Beckham has played for England more is a bit misleading. It would be intersting to see who's played the most for England in terms of minutes on the pitch, I bet Bobbys Moore and Charlton are streets ahead of anyone in that list.

who cares.. I don'ttup:

[sweetcakes]

Although I like Beckham as a player and a person, I have to say it makes me giggle when folks go on about him overtaking Bobby Charltons caps record and approaching Bobby Moore's record. Those two legends played most of their England games in a time when subs weren't allowed, so they would've been on the pitch for 90 minutes of most of those appearances. So to say Beckham has played for England more is a bit misleading. It would be intersting to see who's played the most for England in terms of minutes on the pitch, I bet Bobbys Moore and Charlton are streets ahead of anyone in that list.

You could say the same about Giggs at Man U but the record books wont show that

[Blue Monday]

It also annoys the F*** out of me when they go on about man utd players breaking european match records:mad:
Its a totally format form the home and away fixture dates:mad:

But as quoted, its what the record books say that counts:(

[SoggyMoggy]

It gives the media something to talk and grouch about. Leave them to it and know the truth for yourself. The WAGs aren't doing much at the moment, the papers need all the guff they can get their hands on at the moment.

[lee]

I think most of the sports journalists want people like Beckham to fail and crash and burn for some reason, as is evident after every time he makes a mistake, the press rip into him. It's all pretty pathetic really and it tells you all you need to know about them. I mean that across the board too, some of the comments on radio and broadsheets are just as bad as the tabloids and prove that in reality a lot of these people know feck all about football but like to preach to the rest of the world that they do.

Yeah sure Beckham's caps may not hold as much weight as Charlton's and Moore's but he deserves every cap he gets and if Capello is playing him on merit then I'm not gonna argue.

[tony d]

Beckham was a better player than both Charlton and Moore IMHO..

He deserves the credit he still gets today just as the others do..

[Jantje]

Beckham was a better player than both Charlton and Moore IMHO..

He deserves the credit he still gets today just as the others do..

You've really done it now Tony, that statement is pure bollox. In a poll of people who actually saw all 3 play, i bet you are in a majority of 1

[Kop Kred]

You've really done it now Tony, that statement is pure bollox. In a poll of people who actually saw all 3 play, i bet you are in a majority of 1


Different attributes.. different players..

I actually think Stan Bowles was better than Beckham but that's just my opinion.

[feedbackproblem]

Martin Samuel in The Times covered this subject earlier this week and for once I agreed with the bloke:

Every cap is worth it
That David Beckham equalled Sir Bobby Charlton’s milestone of 106 caps with a 12-minute cameo appearance against Kazakhstan on Saturday has caused disquiet. Yet what is he supposed to do? Refuse to go on? Appear anonymously? His role in the team now is to shore up the final stages of a win and he has accepted it with good grace. One poor pass aside, he played well, albeit briefly.
Not all of Charlton’s matches were World Cup finals, either. In fact, only 29 were competitive. He also made 26 appearances in the home international championship, a tournament English football later abandoned as pointless.
There is no purpose in trying to quantify the worth of individual matches.
The England manager has found it necessary to call upon Beckham on 106 occasions. That is some achievement.

[Jantje]

Martin Samuel in The Times covered this subject earlier this week and for once I agreed with the bloke:

Every cap is worth it
That David Beckham equalled Sir Bobby Charlton’s milestone of 106 caps with a 12-minute cameo appearance against Kazakhstan on Saturday has caused disquiet. Yet what is he supposed to do? Refuse to go on? Appear anonymously? His role in the team now is to shore up the final stages of a win and he has accepted it with good grace. One poor pass aside, he played well, albeit briefly.
Not all of Charlton’s matches were World Cup finals, either. In fact, only 29 were competitive. He also made 26 appearances in the home international championship, a tournament English football later abandoned as pointless.
There is no purpose in trying to quantify the worth of individual matches.
The England manager has found it necessary to call upon Beckham on 106 occasions. That is some achievement.


I'm not decrying Becks achievement and its impossible to compare players from different generations but i would say from my experience that Moore & Charlton had more positive influence on English football.

[tony d]

You've really done it now Tony, that statement is pure bollox. In a poll of people who actually saw all 3 play, i bet you are in a majority of 1

So that statement is pure bollox??

Why is that???? I admit both were greats of their day...

I said in my opinion.. Charlton and Moore wouldnt for one be able to last 90 mins on a pitch in todays game. They played in a different era..

Take Becks back in time at his best he would have been a god.. Fact

Transport those two at their prime forward and they would be LeaGue 1 or lower.. Fact..

TOTALLY DIFFERENT ERAS..

[Jantje]

Take Becks back in time at his best he would have been a god.. Fact

Transport those two at their prime forward and they would be LeaGue 1 or lower.. Fact..

TOTALLY DIFFERENT ERAS..

How does that work Tone? Surely those two would have the diet, fitness, equipment and all the benefits that Becks has so they would still have the relative skill and would be world class!!!

[tony d]

How does that work Tone? Surely those two would have the diet, fitness, equipment and all the benefits that Becks has so they would still have the relative skill and would be world class!!!

Not really.. They were playing their best back then which would be no where near the mark in todays game.. But it was back then

Becks has all the skills in the modern day game so going back his fitness levels etc would automatically turn him into a phenomenon..

Whereas those two would have to see if they could make it above that level of the 60'S AND 70'S.

I do not think they would..They would be also rans not world stars..

[billybantam]

I was heard this debate on the radio and read about it yesterday.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/holt/2008/10/15/why-david-beckham-should-get-moore-respect-for-his-england-career-115875-20805049/

A very good piece on Beckham. Ultimatley he was a completley different player to charlton, and even more so than Moore.

The thing about the chance to earn more caps is simply a progression of football, but i think that people will always counter the records and be aware of the differences across eras of football

[tony d]

[QUOTE=billybantam;238946]I was heard this debate on the radio and read about it yesterday.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/holt/2008/10/15/why-david-beckham-should-get-moore-respect-for-his-england-career-115875-20805049/ A very good piece on Beckham. [/QUOTE

Quality piece. Especially as it was in the Mirror lol.. Read the clipped piece below before reading the rest..

Well said indeed...

"""""Twice, he was runner-up for the World Player of the Year Award, once to Rivaldo, once to Luis Figo. He was measured against the elite of the world game.

His achievements bear the closest analysis. They stand up beside any English footballer, even Moore.

Beckham, for instance, won six league titles in England. Moore did not win any. Beckham won the European Cup once. Moore never won it.

Beckham was the first British player to make 100 appearances in the Champions League. Moore never played a European Cup match.

Beckham won a league title in Spain, something that puts him in rare company indeed among Englishmen. Moore never played in a major foreign league.

Beckham has won most of his England caps in competitive matches. Moore won more than a quarter of his playing against Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.""""""""

[Parrot]

Beckhams being a great player for England and the sending off against the Argies apart, he's never let England down.

Im sure he will go down as an England legend but sadly like every player since 66, he aint won a thing at International level.

The likes of Moore & Charlton did however so a lot of people will automatically call them Legends and rightly so IMO.

As for comparing modern day players with those of the past, its pointless really as you can only be as good as and beat the best thats put in front of you.....something the class of 66 did whereas those since have failed to do so! :(

[Jantje]

[QUOTE=billybantam;238946]I was heard this debate on the radio and read about it yesterday.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/holt/2008/10/15/why-david-beckham-should-get-moore-respect-for-his-england-career-115875-20805049/ A very good piece on Beckham. [/QUOTE

Quality piece. Especially as it was in the Mirror lol.. Read the clipped piece below before reading the rest..

Well said indeed...

"""""Twice, he was runner-up for the World Player of the Year Award, once to Rivaldo, once to Luis Figo. He was measured against the elite of the world game.

His achievements bear the closest analysis. They stand up beside any English footballer, even Moore.

Beckham, for instance, won six league titles in England. Moore did not win any. Beckham won the European Cup once. Moore never won it.

Beckham was the first British player to make 100 appearances in the Champions League. Moore never played a European Cup match.

Beckham won a league title in Spain, something that puts him in rare company indeed among Englishmen. Moore never played in a major foreign league.

Beckham has won most of his England caps in competitive matches. Moore won more than a quarter of his playing against Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.""""""""

Come on , you can twist stats to prove anything

Moore won a World Cup, Beckham didn't
Moore captaained a world Cup winning side, Beckham didn't
Charlton got a knighthood for services to football, Beckham hasn't

see what i mean!

The whole argument is flawed by time itself. I just think the top players of any era would be top now with the same advantages todays players have.

[tony d]

[QUOTE=tony d;239125]

Come on , you can twist stats to prove anything

Moore won a World Cup, Beckham didn't
Moore captaained a world Cup winning side, Beckham didn't
Charlton got a knighthood for services to football, Beckham hasn't

see what i mean!

The whole argument is flawed by time itself. I just think the top players of any era would be top now with the same advantages todays players have.

What else did he do apart from winning the world cup? That is what the article shows.. Beckhams career was a million miles above Moores.. Anyone can see that...

Did Charlton get knighted whilst still playing???? Nope..


I agree they were good players of their era but Beckham was way ahead skill wise...

[Lofty]

From this...

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/F60117B1-73EF-4A26-B409-5E836857B98D/90775/BecksFK_vGre_L.jpg

To this...

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/Becks1710DML_468x498.jpg

Is why I'd not bregrudge Beckham as many caps as he fooking wants jump:

But ultimately he's getting picked and while he still is good luck to him!

[Edwin Fitzgerald]

Speaking of beckham, here's how he's currently filling his time (and his sandwiches)- by advertising fish fingers!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/16/article-0-02237DE2000005DC-573_468x611.jpg


Good grief...