The Pub

[Kop Kred]

The Pub

The traditional English pub is dying..
Poisoned by stealth and tax.
It burns as a candle,
Flickering,..
Dwindling as melting wax

The tax man burns our pockets deep,
The breweries turn the screw,
Soon, no more pubs…
You weep
As time is called for you

The smoking ban, the coffin nail
That casket for the tomb
Taking away that place of peace
Snug
Like a mothers womb

So goodbye to the tap room
Becoming oh so sparse
You can take your gastro-
Whatsit..
And shove it up your arse.

[Garlic Breath]

Thats on www.licensetrade.co.uk (http://www.licensetrade.co.uk) :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Kop Kred]

What you talking about GB?? :confused:

[Spoonhead]

Which is your pub of choice in Clayton KK? Just so's I know where to avoid like! :D I was walking around the village last night and the Albion and the Bull seemed quite lively for a midweek night. Probably due to the England game I suppose.
I tried the Chinese from the village for the first time last night. Not impressed. I'll stick to the one in Scholemoor in future. They're better and deliver. That advice is my good deed for the day done, I thank you.

[Kop Kred]

Which is your pub of choice in Clayton KK? Just so's I know where to avoid like! :D I was walking around the village last night and the Albion and the Bull seemed quite lively for a midweek night. Probably due to the England game I suppose.
I tried the Chinese from the village for the first time last night. Not impressed. I'll stick to the one in Scholemoor in future. They're better and deliver. That advice is my good deed for the day done, I thank you.

lol... I use Scholelmoor myselftup:

I used to frequent the Bull a lot and sometimes the Royal but with rising prices and the smoking ban I tend to use the clubs in the village for my 'swift half;)'

Pubs in well populated villages like Clayton and Wibsey will remain largely traditional and keep busy as long as the licensee is entusiastic enough to 'put things on' during the week... the weekend takes care of itself with all the knob 'eads getting pissed up for a fight.
It's town centres, side street and rural areas being hit... pubs that were always 'steady away' with their business have been hit by taxes, greedy breweries and the smoking ban.
The last estimate I could find was that 27 pubs close each week in the uk and there are currently 57,000 left.
They have a choice.. if they are big enough they can move into the expanding Gastropub market or turn into a theme pub to attract the younger end or close down... but with the credit crunch now hitting the public there are less people eating out.
The only way to stop the rot is for the government to reduce tax and put pressure on the breweries and to do a U turn on the smoking ban... ie. allow landlords to make the decision.

All said.. I give it 10 years before we are nation of wine bars and bistros and the traditional pub will be dead.

[Tallinnbantam]

I'ts truely shocking. I've worked in the pub industry all my life, and all the Government has done is to bleed them dry. However, its a business. Its no suprise that in the recent poll, most people mentioned that their favourite beer was produced by one of the big multinational brewers.

Craft brewing is akin to gastro cooking, and in fact in a declining market, real ales are actually in growth - albeit from a small base. The problem in this image driven market is that the younger drinkers (of which will be the highest percentage of 18-21 year olds in 2009) don't want to drink what their old man or grandad drinks. Real ale brewers need to take a leaf out of the Belgian book and start promoting beer as the better alternative to wine.

I've just been over to the UK (unfortunately the south) with a couple of Estonians who had never been to the UK before. They were blown away with the choice of ales, the hospitality and the banter in your typical English boozer. There is no way we should let these die.

I'm in Bradford over Xmas and can't wait to go to the cock and bottle, which is fast becoming an icon in the real ale world, but due to its location and reputation, looks set to shut down (again) in the near future. The Albion in Greengates is another great pub, that seems to defy its location, due to the excellent quality of its beer. If its good enough - people will travel to it.

[Zonnebloem]

I'ts truely shocking. I've worked in the pub industry all my life, and all the Government has done is to bleed them dry. However, its a business. Its no suprise that in the recent poll, most people mentioned that their favourite beer was produced by one of the big multinational brewers.

Craft brewing is akin to gastro cooking, and in fact in a declining market, real ales are actually in growth - albeit from a small base. The problem in this image driven market is that the younger drinkers (of which will be the highest percentage of 18-21 year olds in 2009) don't want to drink what their old man or grandad drinks. Real ale brewers need to take a leaf out of the Belgian book and start promoting beer as the better alternative to wine.

I've just been over to the UK (unfortunately the south) with a couple of Estonians who had never been to the UK before. They were blown away with the choice of ales, the hospitality and the banter in your typical English boozer. There is no way we should let these die.

I'm in Bradford over Xmas and can't wait to go to the cock and bottle, which is fast becoming an icon in the real ale world, but due to its location and reputation, looks set to shut down (again) in the near future. The Albion in Greengates is another great pub, that seems to defy its location, due to the excellent quality of its beer. If its good enough - people will travel to it.

*SIGH*

It is a real shame that people fall for advertising campaigns to define their choice of drink instead of their taste buds. It seems to be more important what temperature a drink is served at than its intrinsic quality. I'm astounded at people claiming that Bud is enjoyable when it is a colourless, tasteless, CHEAP (based on rice instead of beer ingredients) pile of piss.

Corona is like Bud but sweet and export versions drinkable in UK are shockingly bad sweet virgin's pee DEMANDING a slice of something else like lime to give it some character.

A lager really HAS to be cold or you'd taste how poor it is. Cold and wet = satisfying. A good beer will taste good at something above freezing.

I always frequented the British pub and loved it, initially as a smoker. So, naturally enough, I never noticed or objected to the smoke.

I developed asthma, high cholesterol, blood pressure problems, all of which make smoky pubs a pretty crap idea for me now. Never mind the stinking clothes.

KK. I think that the smoke-free pubs will survive the 10 years and outlive a lot of the smokers. If only we could still ask TerryNewPack his opinion. He might have spoken out against smoky pubs, with the benefit of hindsight. His words are still available, I think, from the members' list.

[Spoonhead]

I can't see the smoking ban ever being overturned so the pubs will just have to deal with it. They need to do something about people stood on the doorstep puffing away too. Not very inviting is it?
I don't think the traditional pub will die but I agree there will be less of them in the future. I'm not sure pubs would be that much busier if beer was cheaper. I think that society has changed as it does tend to! People would rather have a few cans at home or a bottle of wine than go to the pub through the week. At weekends the pub's full of knobs like you say so people go for a nice meal instead!

[Kop Kred]

*SIGH*

It is a real shame that people fall for advertising campaigns to define their choice of drink instead of their taste buds. It seems to be more important what temperature a drink is served at than its intrinsic quality. I'm astounded at people claiming that Bud is enjoyable when it is a colourless, tasteless, CHEAP (based on rice instead of beer ingredients) pile of piss.

Corona is like Bud but sweet and export versions drinkable in UK are shockingly bad sweet virgin's pee DEMANDING a slice of something else like lime to give it some character.

A lager really HAS to be cold or you'd taste how poor it is. Cold and wet = satisfying. A good beer will taste good at something above freezing.

I always frequented the British pub and loved it, initially as a smoker. So, naturally enough, I never noticed or objected to the smoke.

I developed asthma, high cholesterol, blood pressure problems, all of which make smoky pubs a pretty crap idea for me now. Never mind the stinking clothes.

KK. I think that the smoke-free pubs will survive the 10 years and outlive a lot of the smokers. If only we could still ask TerryNewPack his opinion. He might have spoken out against smoky pubs, with the benefit of hindsight. His words are still available, I think, from the members' list.


I also think that the smoke-free pubs will survive the 10 years, What's left of them, because I doubt the government will do anything. I'm not particularly anti smoke-free either, I just wish the government would have let the pubs that don't serve meals decide for themselves and let the public make their choice.

I still think that the traditional pub will eventually die and the closures will become exponential over a decade or so.

[SoggyMoggy]

*SIGH*

It is a real shame that people fall for advertising campaigns to define their choice of drink instead of their taste buds. It seems to be more important what temperature a drink is served at than its intrinsic quality. I'm astounded at people claiming that Bud is enjoyable when it is a colourless, tasteless, CHEAP (based on rice instead of beer ingredients) pile of piss.

Corona is like Bud but sweet and export versions drinkable in UK are shockingly bad sweet virgin's pee DEMANDING a slice of something else like lime to give it some character.

A lager really HAS to be cold or you'd taste how poor it is. Cold and wet = satisfying. A good beer will taste good at something above freezing.



Why can't 'real ale' drinkers accept the fact that there are people out there who prefer the taste of lager than of real ale??? I have tried many bitters and real ales down the years and, to me, they taste like warm flat lager. Budweiser is not tasteless, it simply has a different taste from your traditional English bitter. If that is what you are used to drinking, then yes Bud will be 'tasteless', but to those who don't (again IMO) kill their tastebuds with Real Ale it is refreshing and very enjoyable.

My dad is a real ale drinker and he thought along similar lines to you. Once during his round I asked for a Coors, he brought back a cheap lager thinking that I wouldn't be able to taste the difference because 'all lagers taste the same'. He didn't like it when I sent him back to the bar to pay the extra for a pint of what I ordered.

Just to clarify, I haven't fallen for the advertising campaigns of the big lager companies. I simply prefer the taste.

[Jantje]

What we call lager over here is Beer of the Pilsener style of brewing and has been so for centuries across Europe. Its extremely tasty and cannot be classed with the chemically enhanced shite we were forced to drink in the 70's & 80's onwards

[peter beagrie is mint]

We are slowly but surely getting Islamafied..tdwn:
Islamification is real and here.tdwn:

[peter beagrie is mint]

Is saying, IMO we are under "Islamification"..contreversial (spelling??)

[Devil's Advocate]

peter, Islamification would involve getting rid of alcohol. Take it to its extremes and alcohol is evil.

[peter beagrie is mint]

That's exactly what's happening though..amongst other things.

[Devil's Advocate]

That debate is for another thread though.

This is about the slow decline of the traditional English pub, which arguably is suffering due to changing drinking habits, increased competition from supermarkets and a changing culture as opposed to a religious infiltration.

[peter beagrie is mint]

Yes. I understand that. It all fits in nicely though, doesn't it?

[Parrot]

I'd agree that in places like Bradford and other major cities across the UK that "Islamification" has contributed to the demise of the of the local boozer, you only have to go around places like Girlington etc... to see this with your own eyes.

In general though, the great British boozer's death has more to do with greedy breweries and Government legislation who after smoking are now intent on removing drinking alcohol in public places.

They probably won't be happy till we all just sit in our front rooms every night listening to Government propaganda on the TV....Comrades!

[Devil's Advocate]

It's not islamification though that's affected the local boozer, it's the changing make-up of the local population in Girlington etc. Predominently asian communities do not have a culture that fits with a local boozer, the boozer was there fpr the workers that used to live in those areas. There are still boozers in areas where the ethnic make-up is more heavily weighted towards people who would access such amenities.

The fact that most of the locals are empty nowadays I think is more to do with cheap booze from the supermarket. How many times do we sit at home with a bottle of red as opposed to going down the pub. The bottle probably costs less than the price of 2 pints.

[Parrot]

It's not islamification though that's affected the local boozer, it's the changing make-up of the local population in Girlington etc. Predominently asian communities do not have a culture that fits with a local boozer, the boozer was there fpr the workers that used to live in those areas. There are still boozers in areas where the ethnic make-up is more heavily weighted towards people who would access such amenities.

The fact that most of the locals are empty nowadays I think is more to do with cheap booze from the supermarket. How many times do we sit at home with a bottle of red as opposed to going down the pub. The bottle probably costs less than the price of 2 pints.

What religion do you think the majority of the Asian population in Girlington come from?

I'd say the majority are Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims and so aren't supposed to drink alcohol.

Girlington has always had a mixed ethnic make up for as long as i can remember and the pubs were still doing business but now its "Islamified" and so the pubs are of no use to the immediate community around them....If it had a good mix of Whites, Afro-carribeans, Indians etc...the pubs may have stood a chance in what are already diffcult times for the local boozer but they were doomed from the time that Islam got a grip in the area.

Im not saying if it weren't a Muslim area the pubs wouldn't be struggling like most across the Country but they would have stood much more of a chance of remaining in business.

Face It, its not racist its a fact.

[beerbantam]

What religion do you think the majority of the Asian population in Girlington come from?

I'd say the majority are Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims and so aren't supposed to drink alcohol.

Girlington has always had a mixed ethnic make up for as long as i can remember and the pubs were still doing business but now its "Islamified" and so the pubs are of no use to the immediate community around them....If it had a good mix of Whites, Afro-carribeans, Indians etc...the pubs may have stood a chance in what are already diffcult times for the local boozer but they were doomed from the time that Islam got a grip in the area.

Im not saying if it weren't a Muslim area the pubs wouldn't be struggling like most across the Country but they would have stood much more of a chance of remaining in business.

Face It, its not racist its a fact.

Why have half of the pubs in Thornton shut down then?

Not many Muslims up here!!:rolleyes:

[Devil's Advocate]

Or the ones on Halifax Road at top of Woodside?

[Parrot]

Why have half of the pubs in Thornton shut down then?

Not many Muslims up here!!:rolleyes:

How many pubs do you think they would be in Thornton if it was a Muslim village?


Or the ones on Halifax Road at top of Woodside?

I never said pubs were closing down because of Islamification, i gave my reasons in my initial post why pubs in general are struggling in this Country.

Only an Idiot would say that pubs in majority muslim areas wouldn't be effected by the surrounding population coming from a faith that forbids alcohol.....oh wait!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Devil's Advocate]

That's what I said as well, stop twisting my words! Irrespective of the religion the asian communities are not based around a culture of local boozers.

Ah bollocks to it! :D

[yeldarb87]

i think that you should, like the 24 hour opening licence, apply to become a smoking pub. but you cant have so many smoking pubs within a certain distance of each other.

[beerbantam]

how many pubs do you think they would be in thornton if it was a muslim village?



3?

[Parrot]

3?

Try none.....even the Black Hoss would become an Asian Supermarket :rolleyes:

[beerbantam]

Try none.....even the Black Hoss would become an Asian Supermarket :rolleyes:

tHINK OF THE PUB-GRUB??

NO more slumming it at Da Village @ 1am!!tup:

[Parrot]

tHINK OF THE PUB-GRUB??

NO more slumming it at Da Village @ 1am!!tup:

The only type of people who eat at Da Village are probably the same ones who buy their fish & chips from the young bespectacled lad who looks like he's just had a wank and not washed his hands at the Terminus.....:rolleyes:

[peter beagrie is mint]

I didn't mean closure of the traditional pub was down to 'Islamification'. I was looking at the broader scheme of things and suggesting this is another piece of the jigsaw 'towards' Islamification. Que sera..sera..what will be..will be.

[Tallinnbantam]

Why can't 'real ale' drinkers accept the fact that there are people out there who prefer the taste of lager than of real ale??? I have tried many bitters and real ales down the years and, to me, they taste like warm flat lager. Budweiser is not tasteless, it simply has a different taste from your traditional English bitter. If that is what you are used to drinking, then yes Bud will be 'tasteless', but to those who don't (again IMO) kill their tastebuds with Real Ale it is refreshing and very enjoyable.

My dad is a real ale drinker and he thought along similar lines to you. Once during his round I asked for a Coors, he brought back a cheap lager thinking that I wouldn't be able to taste the difference because 'all lagers taste the same'. He didn't like it when I sent him back to the bar to pay the extra for a pint of what I ordered.

Just to clarify, I haven't fallen for the advertising campaigns of the big lager companies. I simply prefer the taste.

Each to there own. I used to be the brand maneger for Bass, Carling and Coors, so I know that there are different drinkers for different drinks. I'm a "real ale " drinker, but I do not discount the opinion of lager drinkers.

Basically, its all down to occasionality. If I wanted to get on it on Friday night, then I would look to drink an ice cold Carling or Coors. Chilling the beer down to 2 degrees, gets rid of the bitterness in the taste, which increases drinkability and makes people drink more. The addition of hops in beer is to increase the taste - its all down to essential oils in the hop bud. However, if this essential oil is taken below 5 degrees, then it nulifies the aroma, thus making the taste null and void. Put your aftershave in the fridge overnight and smell it in the morning - nothing. The reason you see so many "extra cold" products is preciously due to this reason. It makes the taste agreeable to the masses, makes it likeable to everyone and becomes the perfect session beer. Punters drink loads, pub makes volumes, brewer makes profit. Everyones a winner.

Except those who brew "real ale". Or maybe not. Despite the depressing figures regarding beer, real ale is actually in positive growth. This is due to certain people wanting more for their pound. I don't mean 3 pints of cheap beer, but one pint of quality beer. Its the same as the food industry (and more and more people are now realising that beer is akin to food than to chemically produced product). People would rather buy locally produced natural products (and pay a little more) than something that is generically produced. The reason that ale is growing in a declining market, is that it is percieved as a niche, premium produce, whereas before it was seen as an old mans product. Its no suprise that lager is the number one drink in the UK, because its purposely brewed to taste of minumium product so that it can be inoffensive to as many people as possible! At last count, Carling sells 31 pints per second over the year. Ever wondered when you go into a McDonalds, you don't see a McLiver Burger on the menu?

As I said before, its all down to occasionality. I don't condone a lager drinker for drinking bud, the same way I wouldnt call an ale drinker an old fart. Horses for courses. If you are looking for refreshment, then of course a lager or cider fits the bill perfectly. If you are looking for a quiet pint on a winter day, then a porter or stout fits the bill. Same as white wine on a summers evening , red wine more suitable for darker days (although not exclusively so) - again, its all about occasionality. Its all about what taste you want in what situation you are.

I know it sounds pedantic, but the older you get the more time you take with things. Its the same with beer. When I was 18, it was more important to get as much as it down my neck as possible in as short as time as possible. Now I am a little older, I appreciate taste a little more - which includes drink (beer aswell as wine and spirits). I'd prefer to purchase something a little more challenging, take my time, discover the taste in the glass, and let the younger guys pull the girls I'm lusting over! :)

So SoggyMoggy, I'm not being the CAMRA member that I am. I'm agreeing with you. Its all down to personal taste and occasion. I'm really embarrassed by the beardy weirdies that portray lager as the evil drink. Lager, as well as ale is our heritage. There are so many English words and phrases in everyday life that are inherited from beer, that it would be an absolute crime that the UK loses it pubs or brewers. Just getting someone to drink in a pub - be it lager, alcopop or bitter, would be a triumph over the ridiculous prices that the supermarkets have.